Hear Me Out: Could We Be Overthinking Gender Identity? Pronouns and Trans Identity Discussion.

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In this episode, Vanisha R. Dailey discusses her personal experiences and insights on gender identity, societal norms, and the complexities surrounding pronouns. She reflects on her journey with she/her vs. she/they pronouns, the influence of societal expectations, and the implications of Halloween costumes in gender norms. The conversation also touches on recent controversies in gender spaces and the importance of navigating these discussions with empathy and understanding.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:12

You are now tuned in to Vanisha R. Dailey. Please say the Dailey. I am your host, Vanisha R. Daile y, and this is episode 13. How are you all feeling out there? Are you still getting adjusted to the time change? I've been sleeping so much better. I don't know if it's because of that, but hey, I'll take it. You know they've been talking about completely eliminating the time change. I have to admit, I would love to keep the hours consistent with spring just because I love having longer days to enjoy the sunlight. Okay, quick update. I officially finished my very first audiobook as a narrator. And that's probably why it's taken me so long to get back on here to record, because honestly, I've been burnt out. And I quickly realized that I bit off more than I could chew with that job. I am thankful that I had the opportunity, but I am even more so grateful that it is done. Whew. Also, if you have not heard yet, I am now on Substack. When I created this podcast, I did not put my podcast on YouTube because I'm not doing the video component, nor did I open up an Instagram account specifically for my podcast, like most people typically do. I'm so tired of having to recreate myself a million times through different Instagram accounts, depending on which hobby I'm choosing to share with people. As someone that is a multi-hyphenate artistic person, I am tired, okay? One of you big time social media influencers, please put me on to the key solution to this issue. But anyway, because I very intentionally chose not to create any of those accounts for my podcast, I also eliminated the main spaces for you all to interact with my content. So with that being said, I created a Substack account where I can publish my articles, ramblings, and also integrate my podcast there as well. This allows me to build community and have a space for you all to share your comments and even open chat threads to communicate with others that follow the podcast. So if you would like to join the community and converse with other like-minded individuals that also listen to my podcast, head on over to Vini.substack.com. You'll find that link in the description box below, my Instagram, threads, bio, and everywhere else. Click subscribe, then you'll be receiving my updates directly to your email. You hear it first. Thanks, y'all. Now let's get into it. Years ago, back when I lived in Oregon, I had taken a sociology class from this professor who just so happened to be my mentor as well. During the first day of class, she always wanted us to introduce ourselves and include our pronouns, just so that we knew how to properly address everyone according to name preference and their pronouns. The first time that I had taken this professor's class, I said that my pronouns were she, her, mostly because that's all that I knew. But later down the line, when I took a different class from her, I introduced myself with she, they pronouns. And I remember the professor being slightly surprised about this. She said, Oh really? I didn't know that about you, Vanetia. And I shrugged nonchalantly and said, Yeah, I go back and forth with it. In my mind, the pronoun they is very natural and neutral. It does not override my existence or identity as a woman. When I think about pronouns, it's very simple for myself. When someone talks about me or to me, I would not be bothered by them referring to me as she, her. That's how I was raised. It's the default for myself. Furthermore, if someone were talking about me to someone else and they referred to me as they, them, that wouldn't bother me either, because they just aren't making my gender a part of the conversation. It's not relevant for whatever reason, and that's okay. But what I realized is that people have started to assume that if you go by they, them pronouns, you are automatically a non-binary person in some capacity. Non-binary people do not adhere to any traditional gender norms. And what a lot of people don't know is that this also falls under the category of transness as well, because these are people who have transitioned, hence the word, away from the original gender marker that they were assigned at birth. They no longer align. And while some people are non-binary or even gender queer, this doesn't apply to everyone that is okay with they-them pronouns in reference to themselves. Is it just me or does this continue to add even more complexities around gender identity? I mean, I love the flexibility of it all, but I feel like it's counterproductive if we continue to implement these hard rules of structure around new terminology, when that's exactly what we've been working to get rid of within the traditional binary. Let's not continue the trend. This is why gender identity is such a challenging topic within society, because we've created this social construct that for many seems to be set in stone, and it technically isn't. Storytime. So Halloween just passed a little over a week ago. Did you all dress up? One thing that I always think about during this time is how gender is performed through Halloween costumes. One of my friends mentioned that she likes how I talk about things that I learned in higher education. And one of those things earlier on in my academic career was when I took a class entitled The Sociology of Gender. Everything that I'm talking about in this episode relates to that class. And one thing that the teacher spent an entire week discussing was Halloween costumes and how they are heavily geared toward very specific groups. Let me tell you, I never looked at Halloween costumes the same ever again. In short, this professor showed us countless examples of how silly costumes or hyper-masculine costumes are predominantly geared toward men. Little boys' costumes are usually characters in roles that are usually male-dominated or hyper-masculine, like muscular superheroes, firemen, and police officers. Little girls are usually princesses and little cutesy hyper-feminine characters with frills. And they will always add a tutu to just about everything, just to make it girly. Why does a ladybug need a tutu? Then for women, the dominant category is always sexy. Now look, I love to display sex appeal, but they definitely overdo it sometimes. I saw a comment on threads that said, why are women's costumes always super sexy? Why is Pikachu's booty out? And as funny as this is, they are right though. I would have loved to dress up as Kitana or Chung Li, but we'll have to save that for a more appropriate moment when I'm not walking next to my child. Speaking of, my daughter, who is five years old, she is infatuated with Spider-Man and wanted to be him for Halloween. I asked her multiple times in advance just to make sure that she was absolutely sure about it so that I didn't end up purchasing the wrong costume. Well, about a month ago, there was a maintenance guy that stopped by our place to look at our water heater. He was making small talk and brought up the topic of Halloween to my daughter by asking what she wanted to dress up as. With excitement, she said, Spider-Man. And he laughed and said, What about Spider Girl? She got quiet and I chimed in and said, She wants to be Spider-Man. And that was the end of the conversation. That same week, she was watching her Spider-Man show and said, Guess who I want to be for Halloween? I said, Spider-Man, of course. And she said, I want to be Ghost Spider instead. I will be Spider-Man for next year. To my understanding, Ghost Spider in this kid series that she watches is just a girl version of Spider-Man in a sense. Spidey senses, you get it? Did you catch that? Anyway, in that moment, I could not help but think that the maintenance guy's comment had swayed her desire to be Spider-Man. I instantly had a conversation with her about not allowing other people to influence her decision about the things that she wants to do or be in life because she deserves to be able to do what she wants. Period. Jesse and I often laugh about these big conversations that we have with Onawa because she's only five. But we know that our daughter is a smart cookie. And even if she doesn't understand all of what we are saying, it will eventually click and hopefully stick. When she's an adult, I hope that she will remember some of these moments, and these messages will give her the encouragement to live the life that she wants to live without the opinions of others changing that. Sure enough, a few days after that conversation, she went back to saying that she wanted to be Spider-Man, and that's exactly who she was for Halloween. She was so cute in her costume. My point in mentioning that story is to show how society, along with traditional gender norms, continue to influence how we exist through the lens of gender identity. The comment that the maintenance guy made was small, but that doesn't change the fact that small comments still have the ability to show that there are assumptions and even expectations around how others want us to take up space or even expect us to present ourselves. These messages are coming at us full throttle all the time, in small ways like that, and even overt ways. Before we are even born, people are setting the stage for how they want us to do gender. If you caught my Instagram story a couple of weeks ago, I mentioned that I am starting to gather participants for the research that I plan to include in my thesis. It's about sexuality, in short. I interviewed one person that talked about how they recently realized that they shield their son from participating in anything that isn't traditionally accepted for little boys. They talked about how their son loves dresses and that they would often dissuade their son from the dresses by saying that dresses aren't for boys, despite knowing that clothing is just clothing and not gender. Their reason for doing this? They carry a lot of fear about their son one day being someone that identifies with the LGBTQ community. And this, my friends, goes to show just how much societal norms really control how many of us choose to live our lives. It pressures us to fall in line. And if children are in the equation, how we go about instilling restrictive societal norms onto our children. We understand early on that there are repercussions for not adhering to gender norms, even if we don't necessarily agree with them. I had to go up in the deep end just to get it right. I had to go around the corner just to get my hair right. Did you all catch that video about the black woman who got banned from Gold's gym? Well, if you haven't, this is a very popular story right now amongst the LGBTQ community, especially. It was recently featured on TMZ as well, which makes me question what kind of motives do they have behind adding fuel to the fire between two marginalized groups of people, the trans community and the lesbian community, especially during such politically strained times. Okay, so the woman's name is Tish Hyman. She's apparently a singer-songwriter. She said that she had just finished working out, she took a shower, and just as she was about to start getting dressed, she's in the nude at this point, she just so happened to look up at a person that appeared to be a man. This person was also peering back at her. Tish wondered if she had overlooked the sign, and maybe one of the men that worked at the gym were cleaning the restrooms. So she asked, What are you doing in here? But she quickly realized that wasn't the case when the person lashed out at her, stating, She is a woman and that she is allowed to be in there. Tish said that she felt very uncomfortable in that position, stating that she had previously been a victim of sexual violence when she was a child, so she felt extremely triggered. This is what she said on her TikTok account, by the way. Tish went on to say in the video, How are you calling yourself a woman? while panning this person's body up and down with her camera. She said that this person has a penis. How does she know this? Well, allegedly this person has been naked in the locker room on multiple occasions with other women also complaining to staff members about it. I saw another video about this situation from another trans woman that attends the same gym. This was from a black trans woman who said that they also saw the same person in the locker room, saw their penis, and knew that this would be a situation that will blow up in the near future. And boy were they right. Now, this particular trans woman said that they've never been naked in the locker room, and that the cis-gendered women have always been very inviting to them in that space. So it's evident that some of these gym goers do have the ability to share space with certain trans individuals, as long as they interact with the space in a particular manner. The first trans woman that I mentioned obviously conducted themselves in a way that disrupted the safety of women in that space. And this brings other questions to the forefront. Like whether full nudity in the open area of locker rooms should continue to be accepted or not? Or should there really be a third space for trans individuals? And even if there were a third space for those people, how would that work when some trans people are non-binary, some identify as men, and some identify as women? The last two things that I really want to remind people of when discussing topics like these, your fear is absolutely valid, but that does not ever give anyone a pass to be hateful to the identity of others in moments of unease. That is transphobia. And when we have it in our minds that a person has to present themselves a certain way for us to validate their transness, that is also transphobia. I know that this stuff can be very touchy and confusing for a lot of people, and that is done by design. We actually don't know what anyone has underneath their clothes unless we see them naked, like in this case. But we definitely don't know what people have going on in their bodies, biologically speaking. Don't forget that there are people out there that we share space with that also go against what we have been taught is supposed to be the standard of gender. Trans men do not owe anyone masculinity. Trans women do not owe anyone femininity. Non-binary people do not owe anyone androgyny. And they definitely don't owe it for the sake of anyone's comfort. Ah, so where do we go from here? I asked this rhetorically because I actually don't think there is a clean-cut answer that everyone will be pleased with. Because let's be honest, we're not stepping away from the social construct of gender. The foundation has already been set, and through each generation, we continue to adhere to these traditional ways of gender. The only good thing about this day and age pertaining to this topic is that people are becoming more unapologetic in ways that are forcing people to see that not all of us just go with the flow. Because we simply don't have to, and that is in our right. So as I wrap things up in this episode, I would love to hear your thoughts and personal stories around how you navigate the world in consideration to your gender identity. Is this something that you've ever thought about before? Do you ever find yourself struggling to fit in with mainstream society because you know that you're expected to present yourself in very specific ways according to your gender? Also, leave me a comment if this is your first time knowing that trans identity does not always mean that you're transitioning into the opposite gender. Go ahead and hop on over to Substack so that we can have a conversation about this. Once again, that is VanishaRDailey.substack.com. Thanks for tuning in, y'all. Until next time, I'm gonna go ahead and get a lot of money.